While I was at Levitation last month, I had the pleasure of interviewing Evan Uschenko, founder and multi-instrumentalist in Ghost Woman and Ille Van Dessel, the drummer and other half.
Their set later that day was one of the most memorable ones, along with Fat White Family on the same evening and Acid Mothers’ Temple the night before.
This duo line up fully embodies the name of the band, disenchanted, darkly romantic and haunting. They released their third album Hindsight is 50/50, the first in this incarnation, earlier this year.
We talked about working as a duo, their favorite duos and various influences, amongst others.
LG : Hello, thank you for meeting me today. I have a
penchant for the more obscure, so you’re right up my alley.
I know you're from a small town in Canada, Evan, but what about you, Ille, where are you from?
IVD : I'm from Belgium, I'm from the area of Antwerp and that's where I grew up. We live in a small city called Mechelen, between Brussels and Antwerp, right in the middle…
EU : Historical city.
EU : And I do too.
LG : How did you meet and how did you put the band together? I'm curious and didn't find any info about that.
IVD : We met here at Levitation France !
EU : There's no info because we haven't talked about it since then.
IVD : We met here two years ago.
LG : I was here too.
IVD : It's a very funny story. He was playing with Ghost Woman, obviously with another line up.They were a four piece and I was just here as an audience.
EU : Spectator
IVD : We just randomly started talking and then two years later, we're here.
LG : That's great. I guess it was fate. Some souls in the same place, bound to meet at some point…
IVD : And I didn't know Ghost Woman and I remember they played the last day and I was tired and hungover, you know the drill and they played early and it was a perfect vibe for the time.
LG : I think I must have missed that set because I had a lengthy interview with another band.
EU : It was kind of early, like 5
o'clock but again, it was right in the sunshine… and then we met and
then the van we were renting had to be returned to a city near her hometown, so
I said : I have to return the van, and then we hung out.
She had said at the festival that she was a musician, so I said : let's rent a rehearsal space and just do something. So the first songs we did were very Psychic Ills.
IVD : Side note, the rest of the band at
the time were all Canadian and they had to go back because they had jobs and
families and all that stuff and they had another tour with Chat Van Dille and
there was basically no one. So everyone was like : do you wanna do the drums?
I : I don't know your songs but let's just learn… we had two weeks.
EU : She had the spirit. I think that's why…I was like, it will work. That's the shortened version of it.
LG : I believe when you're on the same page or in the same vibe, it's not so much the technical stuff, it's being in the same realm. It's the spirit indeed.
IVD : It's so funny to think that later, we went to rehearse in Trix, which is a super nice venue in Antwerp. You can rehearse there too and we rented a room there but we didn't know each other, like literally we talked to each other for two hours or so and we went there with all our gear.
EU : No expectations…
IVD : We were on the tram and I was thinking: what are we doing? But it was so cute and innocent and I was so afraid, like I don't want to make any mistake but he said immediately : just do whatever you want ! We still have the recordings, they're really funny, so that's the story…
EU : Maybe we'll release these recordings
IVD : And then we started making music together and then we released the last record and now we're here and it's nice to be in a two piece…I think it works…
LG : It works for me as, in a two- piece, especially with a man and a woman, there's a lot of sexual tension.
EU : I feel it too cos’ we had a show in Norway and we had some argument right before we had to play, so while we were waiting, we were sitting on each side of the stage and then there was a split second when we said : we have to do this !
IVD : It was one of our best shows.
EU : There was a lot of energy, of angry energy. And afterwards, we were fine, we made up.
IVD : Being a duo is also, it really comes off like having no one else because the people that we know, either in Belgium or in Canada, were not available or didn't have the time, which I understand. When you have a house and a family, it's a different situation, but we were more like, we have to…we have to do this together because no one else is going to move to Europe or leave their job behind.
EU : It was a decision. I made a decision and you made a decision. Like let's go 200% into it, see what happens and then anyway, we're here now!
LG: Can you tell me about your favorite duos in music?
EU : Duos, you have one.
IVD : Oh yeah, I'm a big fan of The Kills.
LG : What about The Cramps?
EU : Were they a duo, The Cramps?
LG : They had a band but originally it was the two of them.
IVD : They were also married, right?
LG : Yes; They had a full band but their one of a kind ambiance originally stemmed from being a two piece.
IVD : I also love Death from Above. It
was also a duo, two guys.
Sebastian Grainger is one of my favorite drummers. I like small bands. When there's like ten people on stage, I'm : hmm, nevermind !
LG : I think it all depends because to me, it's down to the chemistry. Two or three pieces can be more magical but sometimes the chemistry can operate between eight people, like elements of something higher.
IVD : It just seems exhausting.
EU : It's a lot of work but it works sometimes. For some people, you can all handle each other and you can be on the road in a band like this.
IVD : Yes everything has its negative and positive things but to me, it seems, when you're with five people, usually when you're in America, you live kind of far away and to put your schedule together. That's why sometimes, people take so long to tour as it takes forever.
LG : It's pricey too ! You know that better than I do !
EU : I like The Psychic Ills and I have a
real soft spot for early White Stripes stuff, so good !
There's probably someone I'm overlooking.
IVD : There was a band yesterday. O (the band O). I didn't know them and I heard it and I just really fucking loved it. That's another answer. They were amazing. Cool drummer.
LG : Yes they do far out stuff. I saw them open for Deadletter about a year and a half ago.
IVD : Oh yeah, they're also an amazing band !
EU : There's also John & Paul, Roger
& Dave, Simon & Garfunkel.
There's a band called The Milk Carton Kids. Have you heard of them?
LG : I haven't. Where are they from?
EU : They're like a newer version of
Simon & Garfunkel, amazing harmonies.
Oh, the best duo of all time is the Everly Brothers, that's what I was thinking. That's my final answer.
IVD : Oh wait, I missed one of my favorite bands, also a duo. Lightning Bolt ! I'm a mega fan. Super giant massive fan.
EU : Lots of good duos out there.
IVD : We need more…
EU: Power duos.
IVD : Duos for ever. Start more duo bands, everyone !
EU :Trios are good too.
LG : I'm surprised there aren't more duos, especially after the pandemic.
IVD : It was a perfect reason to start a small band.
LG: What are your major influences, besides music? Cinema? Literature?
IVD : Feelings ! Is that a weird answer? Just literally like…
EU: Anxiety
IVD : It's a super clichė answer
EU : But you read a lot too !
IVD : Yeah, I'm just a very anxious human being.
LG : That's why you channel it in music.
IVD : Yeah but really heavy sometimes, so
it's a good exercise.
A lot of the songs on Hindsight is 50/50 that we dig were about anxiety and then yes, movies and books, the usual stuff.
LG : Any particular book that was life-changing for you or just something that struck you at some point in your life or made you explore more of a realm?
IVD : Not really ! There's a song on the new record which is called Ottessa, which is named after Ottessa Moshfegh. She's a writer from New York and I've been reading all of her books. I loved her so much, so we named a song after her.
LG : Is she contemporary?
IVD : Yeah she lives now. She wrote something “My year of rest and relaxation” She's from a rich part of New York
LG : Like the upper west side?
IVD : Exactly! She gets into a severe depression and she kind of wants to numb herself with sleeping pills but it's very funny, it's like quirky dark humour. I really like it and then I read all, I mean, most of her other books, so I was like : you have to read this Ottessa.
EU : She got the Dutch version, so I can't read them.
IVD : That's why we named the song Ottessa, so it's actually an ode to this human. I wanted to send her an email, but I didn't. Maybe we should do it.
LG : Yes, you can dedicate her a song. I'm sure she'd be honored.
IVD : I heard she likes music too.
EU : She'd probably be like, cool !
LG : Or you can invite her to one of your shows in New York.
IVD : Yeah, if I ever have the chance to
play New York, I'm gonna go
“ You have to come ! “
LG : You could play at Mercury Lounge in Manhattan.
EU : With my old band, I played at Baby's Alright.
LG : Yeah, in Williamsburg.
EU : Is it still open?
LG : Yeah I still see shows there on bands’ tour dates.
EU : Cool ! They have all these glass bottles, like the end of them is like a backdrop and they have lights in all the bottles and it's a smaller venue, not a huge one.
LG : How do you co-write your songs?
EU : We just set up… how we did it is we have a computer, is how we write. She's got an electric drum kit, so we can play in the apartment and then I hop my guitar up and we just hit record. We do things for two hours straight and then we're like, ok, we're exhausted and then we'll go back and listen through it and be like : This section is cool. I don't know what happened there but let's make that into a song and then when we play, maybe she'll stop and I'll keep doing something or I'll stop, she'll keep going and then it's just kind of a whole bunch of songs and then we slice them up and work on those individually.
IVD : And then we don't have lyrics for half a year and then when we hit record, we go, lyrics !
LG : Oh you write them together? I like some of the lyrics. Some reminded me a bit of Edgar Allan Poe or Arthur Rimbaud.
EU: Yes, dark shit.
IVD : I love Arthur Rimbaud ! I was gonna say that. Une Saison en Enfer. That's also one of the things that I think are interesting.
EU: That's cool that you heard that in there.
IVD : Yeah, that's really cool !
LG: Also I wondered who, as a drummer, you were influenced by cos one of the songs’ “Wormfeast” really reminded me of Budgie (Peter Edrward Clarke) of Siouxsie and The Banshees.
EU : That song's crazy, she basically wrote that song, she made the drumbeat and then I just screened the guitar parts, it's like a melody on the drums.
LG : I love it, it gave me goosebumps when I first heard it.
IVD : Oh thank you, it's one of those songs that people don't listen to because there's no vocals and it wasn't released as a single.
EU : It's a bit later in the album.
IVD : Super fun to play.
EU : We have to really focus on it cos there's so much shit happening.
LG: It's very hypnotic. I listened to it but it was even better to watch you drum.
IVD : It's a cool song but to answer your question, I'm a big fan of Charles Hayward. He's my favorite drummer.
EU: He was in a band called This Heat.
IVD : He's very straightforward but also, like, random and I just really admire him. He's old though, like almost 80 years old. (note, He’s actually 73, he was born in 1951) and I saw him five years ago.
LG : Is he still active right now?
IVD : Yeah he's still active and I was
like, he's so cool ! It's not that I'm watching the videos and copying but jt's
always in the back of my mind. What would Charles do?
But even, Seb(astien Grainger) from Death from Above is someone that I really admire. I like to have a mix between straightforward and repetitive but also do something now and then that is totally random. I think that's what I would like to do as a drummer.
LG : That's what I like to see, it's good to be surprised.
IVD : Sometimes you have to do something that is unexpected.
LG : I agree with that. A lot of bands are actually really predictable, even the entrance, how they get on stage, so it's good to see something that really catches you off guard.
IVD : It's also your job as a musician to
reinvent yourself and try to set the bar
high.
Even though you're like, I don't know if I can do it. You have to do it because it's the only way you're going to be better.
EU : Challenge
IVD : And then die on stage.
LG : Yeah, dying every night and resuscitating.
IVD : I've done that many times.
With many thanks to Ghost Woman
